Fama Fraternitatis - 1614

Wiewohl wir nun wohl wissen, daß es umb ein ziemliches noch nicht an dem, da wieder unserm Verlangen oder auch anderer Hoffnung mit allgemeiner Reformation divini et humani, solle genug geschehen, ist es doch nicht unbillich, daß, ehe die Sonne auffgehet, sie zuvor ein HELL oder dunkel liecht in den Himmel bringt und unter dessen etliche wenige, die sich werden angeben, zusammen tretten, unsere Fraternitet mit der Zahl und Ansehen des gewünschten und von Fr.R.C. fürgeschriebenen Philosophischen Canons, einen glücklichen Anfang machen oder ja in unserer Schätz (die uns nimmermehr aufgehen können) mit uns in Demut und Liebe genießen die Mühsamkeit dieser Welt überzuckern und in den Wunderwerken Gottes nicht also blind umbgehen.

Vi vet dock att det enligt vår åstundan och andras förväntningar efter någon tid kommer en allmän reformation av både gudomliga och mänskliga ting. Ty innan solen går upp, upplyses himlen av
MORGONRODNADENS ljus. I väntan på denna reformation församlas några få som med sitt antal skall utöka vårt brödraskap, höja dess anseende och stärka dess förhoppningar och ge de av Fr.R.C. föreskrivna Filosofiska Canons en lycklig begynnelse. I all ödmjukhet och kärlek skall dessa nytillkomna tillsammans med oss dela våra skatter, som aldrig skall förgås, och så lindra denna världens möda och inte längre vandra ovetande om kunskapen om Guds underbara verk.

Howbeit we know after a time there will now be a general reformation, both of divine and humane things, according to our desire, and the expectation of others: for it is fitting, that before the rising of the Sun, there should appear and break forth AURORA, or some clearness, or divine light in the sky; and so in the mean time some few, which shall give their names, may joyn together, thereby to increase the number and respect of our Fraternity, and make a happy and wished for beginning of our Philosophical Canons, prescribed to us by our brother R.C. and be partakers with us of our treasures (which never can fail or be wasted) in all humility, and love to be eased of this worlds labor, and not walk so blindly in the knowledge of the wonderful works of God.


Det brittiska ordenssällskapet Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn och den tyska Frimurarlogen L'Aurore Naissante, vilket grundades i London 1888 respektive Frankfurt-am-Main 1807, delade på samma hebreiska namn Chevrah Zerach Bequr Aur, förevisat i gyllene gult vid bloggens huvud, vilket ordagrannt kan översättas till “Stigande Gryningsljusets Sällskap”. Denna tyska Rosenkorsiska Frimurarloge i Frankfurt, vilket måste anses vara det ursprungliga modertemplet till GOLDEN DAWN, kallade sig på tyska även Loge sur Aufgehenden Morgenröthe, vilket kan översättas till “Gryende Morgonrodnadens Loge”. Detta skiljer sig åt från den engelska seden att översätta orden Bequr Aur till “Golden Dawn” eller “Gyllene Gryningen”. Med anledning av Rosenkorstraditionens tyska ursprung är en mer korrekt översättning av Bequr Aur, genom franskans L'Aurore Naissante och tyskans Aufgehenden Morgenröthe, inget annat än GRYENDE MORGONRODNADEN. Denna hänvisning till ett stigande gryningsljus, morgonrodnad eller aurora är en klar hänvisning till den allmäna reformationen omnämnt i det ovan citerade stycket från Fama Fraternitatis. Denna blogg har dock valt att behålla den försvenskade anglo-saxiska termen GYLLENE GRYNINGEN för att denna, invand som den är, lättare associeras med den Rosenkorsiska tradition som här ämnas att framställas.

Licht, Leben, Liebe

onsdag 29 juni 2011

Theurgic Black Magic


Reading Rufus Opus’ latest blog post and its follow up today I was mildly upset as well as quite intrigued by its contents. Now I haven’t been following his blog or looked at his web page in any greater detail, although it seems to me he is one of the more knowledgeable and proficient magicians out there on the blogosphere, having his foundation in neo-Platonism and esoteric Christianity. It also stands quite clear that he is a very well respected authority on Magic and the classical traditions.

The main issue for me personally is that Rufus Opus has used and frequently is using ritual magic to affect the free will of individuals that annoys him. Using a consecrated material substitute for that particular annoying person he invokes the 7 Planetary Lords and initiates her to their influence to remedy her “sickness” or “faulty ways” of thinking and feeling towards her neighbors – i.e. to stop being such an pain in the neck. This, he claims, he is doing for her own good.

But him being a professed Christian, it makes me wonder if Rufus Opus has ever considered the ethics involved in this kind of “black” magic? What about the free will of man? And who is he to actually know what is best for a human being? Isn’t that the prerogative of God? Is it right to use magic to initiate persons against their will? Is it fair to heal people without their consent?

In my humble opinion, it takes a Magician of Christ’s standing (or a man-god) to free individuals from their burden of karma. Does Rufus Opus consider himself being His equal? It does seem to me that he in fact is doing this out of compassion for the souls of these inflicted individuals. But is he aware of all the consequences of his actions and of the intricate interconnections which we call “fate”, that this person is suppose to experience for her to grow spiritually? Is he aware that in doing this he perhaps is ridding that person from a possible important lesson in life because of any future consequences of Rufus Opus’ actions?

Shouldn’t spiritual development and psychic maturity mainly come (or originate) from within the person, and not from any outside influence? Even if someone can be an important initiator to start a process of growth, personal insight still have to come from within to have any fundamental changing effect, as may be construed from the word itself. Isn’t it the work of the Divine Genius or Holy Guardian Angel of that person to teach her lessons? Isn’t Rufus Opus, when he stepps in, taking his place in Its stead?

These are just some questions that popped up reading Rufus Opus’ last two blog posts. I have my personal opinion regarding all of this, but I don’t know for sure what is the right conduct in instances as this. I suppose there is a line that may be crossed where a Magician can put on the cloak of Christ to remedy mental and behaviour sickness of this kind, but are these instances that he has exemplified – i.e. that of people causing strife and being generally annoying – really belonging to this category? I’m interested in hearing your opinions on this matter.

Rufus Opus himself refers to this formula of Theurgy used against others as the “truest form of Black Magic”. But I don’t know if one form of black magic is actually better than any other. Compare this use of magical manipulation of someone’s free will with an ordinary magical attack where you want to injure or hurt someone. In the latter case you at least have left that person’s free will and integrity intact, even if his life perhaps has been shattered to ruins, if you know what I mean. So I don’t actually know which of these two kinds of black magics is morally superior. What I’m sure of though is that any such magical manipulation of someone else’s fate creates negative after-effects for the magician himself; consider the heavy burden of karma being carried over from that other person. That is a heavy burden ideed for an ordinary magician to carry.

Personally I have never resolved to using back magic of any kind, nor would I do it in any future, perhaps with the exception of warding off someone else’s direct magical attack against me or any of my beloved ones (especially the latter) – but then again that last example wouldn’t constitute any “black magic” in the first place as self-defense is ethically permittable. As I have said in a recent previous blog post, there are situations where severity is required to deal with certain aggressions. However, I’m not a particularly paranoid person, although I do believe that I and others close to me in fact have experienced magical attacks in the past.

What I would do, if being in a similar situation as that of Rufus Opus, is to pray for the annoying person’s soul to receive the Light to better her ways – that is, receive the Light only if she consent to it. Remember that no true initiation forces itself upon any individual; the conscious consent of the candidate is always an important factor also during the ceremony itself (see the “Ritual Z.3” of the R.R. et A.C. corpus). That kind of working could also have involved opening up a direct line with that person’s Holy Guardian Angel, praying for it of doing that, having one’s own Angel communicating with the other person’s Angel or, if one somehow knows the other Angel’s name, through evocation. But then again not forcing anything upon any of them, neither Angel nor Man, only requesting for the Angel’s guidance of the poor soul. As a kind of compassionate prayer.

Perhaps the best solution to all of this would have been to invoke one’s own Holy Guardian Angel or Divine Genius to provide for oneself some more patience and forgiveness towards the other person. We cannot (or shouldn’t dare to) change anyone else, but we definitely can and should change ourselves. As initiates that is our main and constant task.

I’m not trying to be overly judgmental of Rufus Opus’ actions and ideas here, although I would admonish caution against anyone considering what he has suggested. His blog posts have raised several important issues and questions that I wanted to address. What I’m saying is that it may be proper to do this kind of workings if you are working under the consent of the Divine, being given the authority to burn away someone else’s Karma or alleviating his burden of Guilt or Sin, partaking of the level of initiation that equals that of Jesus Christ. In the Golden Dawn scheme of things, this would equal someone being at least a Magus 9°=2°. I hope that Rufus Opus has already earned this spiritual standing, for the sake of his own soul and that of his victims.


18 kommentarer:

Anonym sa...

To a Thelemite the ethics here are very clear and simple: Nobody has the right to influence the mind or will of another. The mere lust to do so should be an indication that something is wrong.

Nobody has the knowledge of what is "for their own good" for another entity since said entity is exactly that, "another" and a unique.

A mystery unknowable to any other than itself("Every man and every woman is a star").

The isolation of A.:A.: members from eachother and the prohibition of interpreting Liber Al to eachother has to do, partly, with that.

Self defense would ofcourse be an exeption here.

Unknown sa...

Care GH Fra SR,

Very interesting post, thank you for sharing your thoughts! This is a bit tricksy, isn't it? I personally have no issues with the approach Fra RO took; I may not have been so kind as to "evolve" the individual, although I certainly would have kept any action within the realm of equity and reason. A couple others have written about how Fra RO worked on her over irritation, but it was more than that if I recall correctly. She was causing strife among family; that is not to be accepted.

While it is certainly very Christian to turn the other cheek when crossed, it isn't a requirement in the broader Hermetic tradition. I'm a firm believer in Justice, but do not think we need sit about and wait for some Macro-cosmic correction to occur. That's the sort of thought that was foisted on my ancestors (well, probably Everyone in the West's ancestors at his point, if your father's were poor)to encourage them to stay in an impoverished and downtrodden position. To be meek, and wait for Heaven to bring them Justice. That didn't work out so hot.

We are given tools to work with on this world, and given a Will so that it may be worked. If a person has chosen to live in such a way as to impose their Will on me (be it via "shit-talking", or any other oppressive action) I feel duty-bound to address them in kind. These things are nuanced, though...intent makes a difference. I would be kind and warm to someone who accidentally struck my car, or broke something special to me--if someone is apologetic, the door is opened for forgiveness and merciful action. If someone where to destroy my car on purpose with intent to harm, then the door to severity is opened, and I let it flow. I think it is correct to move ourselves in the way we understand the Macrocosm to move, in alignment with it. Then, we become an instrument of the Macrocosm. It's when we go against that flow--are merciful to the unrepentant, severe to the repentant--that we are impacted negatively by correction. Being only merciful in the face of this sort of thing and not taking action often results in ourselves taking the negative correction; we find that the negative behavior continues from the individual until we get up and do something about it. Determining intent is tricky, but we have tools. Divination and prayer work.

I impose my will upon others all of the time. I do it at work, I do it when I'm training (martial arts), and I do it thaumaturgically when people threaten my sphere of influence or cross me in a profound way. I impose my will--graciously, but imposition nevertheless--upon elementary entities to accomplish tasks for me quite regularly. I impose my will upon my children, and punish/reward them in order to hone them into worthwhile individuals. I do it subtly through charm and brazenly through strength of arm or intellect, depending upon the situation. Even coming into agreement with someone involves both parties subjugating some part of their desires to the Will of the other...not even compromise is free of this. This is the way of the World. I find the idea that imposing my will upon another using Magic--as opposed to charm, or wit, or inherited power (through the workplace, being a parent, etc)--to be incorrect...not that you are saying that, but it does come up for some folk. They are fine with calling the police on someone, but not with cursing them...as if there were some difference. Just my opinion!



neognostica sa...

From the Cult of the Cow, to Chaotes and Goetia-Nuts; these currents were left by Initiates to guard the logos.

The above captioned currents are only a few of the names for some very-well-thought-out occult apparatuses.

These non-blue blueprints, are working well: as those with a low-morale-structure cannot resist the temptation.

And try as they will; once infected with the associated elemental deamons, they can never breath life into the dead.

And I try not to think about what their life may be like, once their human body dies.

With that in mind: Alucinare Concordia Veritate et LVX Deo Volente.


Rufus Opus sa...

Thanks, AIT, and well said as usual. Very polite.

I responded with a full post, and I hope it addresses your concerns, Fr. S.R.

And I LOVE what you had to say about me up top, you're obviously graced with above-average observational skills.

Sincerus Renatus... sa...

@Marcel: I appreciate you answer. But still I'm not convinced that this is an absolute black and white issue. There may be instances where such forced upon magical therapeutics may be excused, such as in the case of the certified psychopath and a sociopath - a general malice to society. But in Rufus Opus' example, what we see is a neurotic (perhaps hysterical) woman. Who is not an neurotic? Who doesn't stoop down to pettifulness in stressed situations? Should one be grateful that one hasn't step over the toes of some mightly magician, only because one had a bad day? One shouldn't mix apples with oranges.

In Licht, Leben und Liebe

Sincerus Renatus... sa...

@Frater AIT: Regarding the turning of the other cheek issue, I have already addressed that in a previous blog post, namely:


Thus it's not, in my (and some other Christians) opinion a pacifistic credo. It's about demonstrating public ridicule. So I agree with you that severity is on occation called for; sometimes one feels a holy wrath inside and a divine cry for justice. But these instances are often damn hard to miss for most of us. What I'm addressing is behaviour which would be categorized as neurotic, i.e. that creates nusances and irritation, sometimes anger.

Also, one should address people who behave in a rude and impolite way. But it suffices just to speak candidly what you think of their bad behaviour, even with sternness if needed. I'm a quite stern father on occations, but a loving one as well. I tell my kids off when they behave in error. But I do not cast spells over their heads while sleeping to better their ways. They have to learn their lessons the hard way, through social interaction and traditional upbringing.

So I basically agree with you that we should react with severity against the unrepentant and with mercy against the repentant, but not by using magic with the exception of very extreme cases. As magicians we also live on the physical plane and we act as social individuals. Most problems of this kind can be solved or addressed properly using basic social skills, not magical. We shouldn't mix planes. If someone wants to attack me physically, I call the police (which probably has a much more direct effect anyway). If someone attacks me magically, I protect myself magically and severally.

Yes, we do impose our wills on others all the time. But we always leave a choise on the other person; there is always a choise when someone confronts anothers will. But if you, through magic or psychological manipulative techinques, try to change the will of another person without them being conscioius of this, you are stripping them of their human dignity.

Elementals or Planetary Spirits are not humans. They are forces of nature, even the blind forces of nature. They benefit from our control and power. However, we do that while invoking the highest Powers and Names of God. Without their aid and consent, we won't do that much influence upon the Elemental or Planetery forces.

In Licht, Leben und Liebe,

Sincerus Renatus... sa...

@Rufus Opus: Thank you for your thoughful and balanced response over at your blog [http://headforred.blogspot.com/2011/06/enlightenment-bombing.html].

Yes, divination is valid tool to use to "diagnose" an individual. This question was also raised by A.I.T., which I forgot to address. I have (almost) always used divination (by Tarot) when doing healing work, even when the subject has given his consent.

It's true that we are all part of the fate of someone. The question is what plane we should work on in the great network of circumstances we call fate or karma. Man is a special creature in the creation; we have a divine prerogative, that of mending that what was once broken through the Fall, i.e. God; it is our task to raise the sparks as Qabalists say.

In a way, what you are doing can be considered doing just that, or is it? Well that's the question that I cannot answer to my full satisfaction.

I'm a humanist, in its original renaissance sense. That is, I regard Man as being divine in origin and manifestation. We are all "lesser gods" so to speak, the microcosmic reflection of the macrocosm (i.e. God). On this part I agree with you. But the integrity and individual value of a human being is sacrosanct for me. Take away the free will of a human, you take away his dignity.

I will only inflict someone else's free will and freedom of choice if they try to inflict real injury to myself or my close one's. That is if someone aims at either physically or psychologically to inflict direct injury, such as molestion or violation, etc. Someone's bad behaviour, pettifulness and strife making wouldn't qualify in my book, if that doesn't cause direct injury violating my or my beloved one's personal integrity.

I do agree that experiences make us grow as spiritual entities, and I also sense a humbleness in your reply. But at the same time we should steer ourself to act in a way that we perceive to be "according to the Divine Plan", from our limited point of view. It is here where the questions of ethics comes in. My ethics says that human free will is sacrosanct and is not an affair to be meddled with.

In all therapeutic professions, discussion and debate about ethics must always be kept alive. I'm working as a professional case worker and psychotherapist. Issues of ethics are always held in the fore front of discourse. That should also be the case with spiritual therapeutics. That's why I have addressed these issues today. Ethics helps us steer us safely through all the pits that we otherwise could have falled into.

I also agree with you basically that manipulation of Man's Will can only be affected by the consent of God, or else it will have massive retribution. I suppose that divides "Black Theurgy" (imposed healing and initiation) from "Black Thaumaturgy" (magical attack); although nothing can be affected ouside of God's Will, direct manipulation of human will works on higher hiarchial levels (mental as opposed to astral).

In Licht, Leben und Liebe,

sibuna sa...

Well, the basic question still is: why does a person ( in this case RO) feel so disturbed by anyone´s behavoir to make him use magic against the opponent? The whole thing reeks strongly of unresolved trauma (from a time in life way BEFORE the actual events). As they say: when something nags you strongly (and does so even if you are not in the conflict situation itself) then it has to do with yourself, most likely with your repressed feelings.

I would first check back if there are no other ways to handle a situation like that. Talk to the person(s) involved; retire to solitude if that fails; etc... there are many options. Of course, there may be times to use magic.

I once did that, at times when i was working with Wicca a lot. The situation was that gossiping dominated in the company I worked at. But instead of directly aiming my magic at any specific person(s) I chose to invoke peace and serenity to counted-balance the atmosphere in the office (this procedure was the best option according to my then-Wiccan belief set).
The ritual worked: first this person went on a business trip, then the other person was on her annual vacation etc... and when finally everyone was back the personal contact between the persons in question had subdued to such an extent that they didn´t to annoy anyone with their cheap talk anymore. The whole thing had an effect like a separation ritual.

kind regards,

Rufus Opus sa...

Sibuna, your opening paragraph is bordering on "blame the victim" pop psychology.

You assume I'm just "annoyed," and that's your right considering the limited amount of the very personal situation I published. What you don't understand is that I was "annoyed" because this person's actions caused real and present trauma to my wife, children, and extended relatives. If it were a petty annoyance, do you think I wouldn't be able to just shrug it off? You wouldn't know, not knowing much about me, I suppose. Rest assured it takes more than something small to move me to take this kind of action.

When it becomes necessary, I don't hesitate though. It is my responsibility to tend my garden, and that means using the pruning shears as necessary.

Argent sa...

Jag läste hela blogserien precis. Jag måste säga att jag inte förstår för en sekund varför du ens gav dig in i den diskussionen. Baserat på hans blog och personliga interaktioner på nätet så har han vare sig kunskapen eller förmågan att utföra det han säger att han gör.

Killen är fast i en path 32 satunrus/yesodisk astral drömresa han fortf inte har återhämtat sig från och är lika långt ifrån att uppnå ett albedo stadie som gemene man är från Rubedo.

Skall tilläggas att han arbetar med de lägre aspekterna av de planetära änglarna och har lyckats få ngn random entitet eller en egen sub-persona att låtsas vara hans heliga skyddsängel.

Bör du som har möjligheten att faktiskt komma någonstans bry dig?
Att hela den blogospheren blev up in arms om situationen bevisar att de inte förstår vad syftet med teurgi egentligen är. De renar sig med smuts och misstar astrala upplevelser för sanningar.

En varelse som är på väg att renas behöver inte ta till sådana metoder som de beskriver.

Broder, mindre pärlor till svinen.

Sincerus Renatus... sa...

@Argent: Så sant som det sagt. Jag vet inte vad som är mer skrämmande, hans egna kommentarer eller den stora kör som hyllade honom för det han hade gjort.

Naiv som jag är så hoppades jag att få en och annan att tänka till innan de gjorde en "copycat". Han är ju tyvärr en väl ansedd auktoritet och många lyssnar till vad han säger. Jag hade inga föreställningar om att försöka få honom att bättra sig; han anser ju sig själv vara sin egen bästa mästare.

In Lich, Leben und Liebe,

Unknown sa...

@GH Fra SR, Fra Argent,

Gentleman. Det är 2011. Google Translate finns, om du vill diskutera utan att engagera dina motståndare, sedan helt enkelt göra det privat. Chatta i ett språk skilt från det där samtalet genomfördes, men på samma forum, är barnsliga och under er båda.

GH Fra SR, håller jag med om mycket av ditt svar, men jag ser inga riktiga moraliska skillnaden mellan att använda magi för att åstadkomma en sak och använda mina ord, eller fysisk styrka. Huruvida en handling är moraliskt eller inte finns i avsikten bakom den, inte på det sätt åtgärden manifest. Det är inte mindre negativ slå en man i huvudet med en pinne än att förbanna honom med en huvudskada. Det är självklart att det är något mer positiv heller. Bara min åsikt, naturligtvis, din är helt klart väl genomtänkt, så jag kan respektera det även om jag inte håller med. Jag hoppas att du mår bra!

This is clearly a horrible translation, but I'm sure you see the point. =)You aren't actually having a hidden conversation. The attempt to do so, but simply chatting "over the heads" of those unlearned in your language, is plainly foul.

Unless we are being intentionally rude, digressing in a public forum into conversation in a language not understood by those one is debating with is to be avoided--especially when the content of said conversation is thoroughly negative. Perhaps it is different in Europe; in America that would be considered extraordinarily rude. As GH Fra SR has never been other than polite and a gentleman, I imagine this is a cultural difference.

Sincerus Renatus... sa...

Point well taken H. Fra. A.I.T. The blame is mine. Sometimes people on the blogosphere uses the comments section as an e-mail function, and that was probably Fra. Argent's original intent; it was probably for my eyes only. Not the first time I made such a mistake ;-)

It also pleases me to see that you have such a strong passion for what is right and what is not, in human conduct (etics), considering the subject matter. It makes me quite convinced that you will think twice or thrice before you even consider using aggressive magic against anyone, even though you have a background in Hoodo.

And the translation wasn't that bad actually. I had expected much worse. :-)

Have a nice day you too!


Argent sa...

Frater AIT and SR

To be honest I dont give a rats ass who can or who cannot use google translate.

There is a difference between being bothered to say something in english or not.

If someone wants to they can as you say yourself translate with google. same with spanish replies to the English blog speculum celeste written by Nick.

Im not writing to engage a thread. The comments is for the blog itself. and at this point I do not have the energy to even want to engage. if I want to have a private conversation with frater SR I will skype him.

My sentiment stands and I have been clear on this matter before.

Hope both of your Work is going well.

Unknown sa...

"To be honest I dont give a rats ass who can or who cannot use google translate.

There is a difference between being bothered to say something in english or not.

If someone wants to they can as you say yourself translate with google. same with spanish replies to the English blog speculum celeste written by Nick.

Im not writing to engage a thread. The comments is for the blog itself. and at this point I do not have the energy to even want to engage. if I want to have a private conversation with frater SR I will skype him.

My sentiment stands and I have been clear on this matter before.

Hope both of your Work is going well."

My Work is going well, and thank you for inquiring Frater. I hope yours progresses smoothly!

As to this comment, brother, I'm going to be frank; that's a sack of nonsense. If you were commenting directly on the blog And not wanting to engage publicly with the other persons involved, you would have simply messaged GH Fra SR. Perhaps if this blog were written in Swedish, or you had less than an obviously excellent grasp of English, your bit about "not being bothered" would make sense. You even write your own blog in English; come on now, man.

You aren't new to the internets; let's not pretend you don't know how this works.

Your views are your views; I may not agree with you entirely, but I won't make a villain of you either. You came to them through your understanding of the Work (which I thoroughly respect), and are entitled to them. If I felt the need to debate your actual views, I would have done so.

You can, however, express those views without being an ass. If you cannot be bothered to do so, and feel attacked or slighted (I'm assuming you feel this way because of the tone of your comment) when others respectfully express displeasure with your approach, then perhaps public discussion is not for you. Raising the blood pressure, and all that.

I find few things more offensive than intentional rudeness; please pardon if my tone sounds strident, but the tone of discourse between Western practitioners on the internet is poor enough without those of us who know better contributing. We can be frank without being rude.

@GH Fra SR

Thank you brother. =) Worry not, I don't go about cursing folk willy-nilly; I work from the Middle, on the balanced path, and apply mercy or severity as the situation demands...as I've learned from you and my few other Theurgic mentors.

Sincerus Renatus... sa...

Fratres A.I.T. et Argent,

Hey guys! I love you both. And I respect you both. Also for being so frank and honest in your writing. But the last thing I would like to see here on my blog is to watch you getting at each others troats. It would make me cry.

In Licht, Leben und Liebe,

Argent sa...

frater I believe you are really missunderstanding me, neither of my comments was intended as intentional rudeness-

I like you and S.R. too much for that.

However engaging further in this dialogue is not going to be very fruitful due to the nature of textbased, not realtime conversation.

Rest assured I do not feel attacked or slighted either. and my bloodpressure is fine. I would have to have an emotional investment for that to happen. And unfortunately the internet is about as real to me as a game of monopoly.

I think we can easily avoid causing S.R. to have to cry ;)

Lvx and all that jazz

Unknown sa...

Fra Argent,

Sounds like we're on the same page then.=)I'm all for keeping our dear brother SR tear-free, hahaha.