tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4306753589954666513.post4165977752207841019..comments2023-03-30T12:21:34.989+02:00Comments on Gyllene Gryningen: Fräulein Sprengel and the Licht, Leben und Liebe TempleSincerus Renatus...http://www.blogger.com/profile/16773943810683981054noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4306753589954666513.post-73891907626253501772010-07-29T17:32:50.232+02:002010-07-29T17:32:50.232+02:00Carette,
A very interesting text from the Licht, ...Carette,<br /><br />A very interesting text from the Licht, Leben, und Liebe Circle is a book on the Floorcloth and its relationship to many things, including the "Ur-Religion".<br /><br />"Encyclopedia fur BB.'. Freimaurerrei. Band 1. Die Tapis in ihrer Historisch-Paedigogischen, Wissenschaftlichen und Moralischen Bedeutung. Oder: Geschichte der Urreligion als basis der Freimaurerei" <br /><br />Although, it seems a bit overly Christian-biased for the Ciphers, etc. Although, it does possibly fit with Fraulein Sprengel's system not being approved by the rest of the crew... <br /><br />However, for the sake of historical accuracy; I do go on record as most definitely disagreeing with Mr Word's assessment of these letters from Fraulein Sprengel. I had looked into this sometime back, and base this entrely on the first letter received by Westcott from Fraulein Sprengel.<br /><br />In Light,<br />OlenFr. A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09100316012648450310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4306753589954666513.post-86908974840946326012010-07-25T11:54:51.166+02:002010-07-25T11:54:51.166+02:00I have made som additions to the last two paragrap...I have made som additions to the last two paragraphs, in light of the latest discussion here on the comments section.<br /><br />I looked at R.A. Gilbert's 'The Golden Dawn Scrapbook' to find any references to the 1910 letter from MacGregor Mathers to Westcott. I found it alright, but also that it was sent from Westcott to MacGregor Mathers as a draft where the former asked the latter to write an exact signed copy. Westcott was obviously desperate to save his reputation in the wake of Crowley's publication in the Equinox. Equinox dragging the old skeletons out of the closed obviously created quite a stirr amongst the original founders.<br /><br />The question remains if MacGregor Mathers actually wrote that letter as demanded by Westcott? Be that as it may, but I believe it is plausible that the scenario presented in the "draft" is a correct observation of what actually happened. <br /><br />Thus I have added the following to the text:<br /><br />"Thus I don’t believe it was a mere chance that MacGregor Mathers wrote his letter to Florence Farr when Mrs. Horos was staying with her husband at his house. If she was the real S.D.A., and from American descent, surely Westcotts German Sprengel couldn’t had been real in the minds of S.L. MacGregor Mathers and his wife Moina; the opinions of Westcott and MacGregor Mathers were mutually exclusive.<br /><br />"Perhaps both Westcott and MacGregor Mathers were being honest?"<br /><br />Perhaps MacGregor Mathers should have written that letter? Perhaps it was long overdue? Perhaps he indulged his old friend in the end? Westcott surely wasn't his enemy. Crowley was. Neither Westcott or MacGregor Mathers, especially the latter who still headed the Order, had any interest in destroying the reputation of it.<br /><br />Thus I give the benifit of the doubt to the scenario that MacGregor Mathers followed Westcotts instructions, as they both had a common interest in it.<br /><br />And, as I have said, this also seems to be a highly probable scenario that MacGregor Mathers were duped by the highly dangerous Horos woman to believe that she was the factual S.D.A. while Westcott's was not. Otherwise I don't believe that MacGregor Mathers would have complied to Westcotts request.<br /><br />In Licht, Leben und Liebe<br />S:.R:.Sincerus Renatus...https://www.blogger.com/profile/16773943810683981054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4306753589954666513.post-43192034544158628082010-07-24T22:08:58.929+02:002010-07-24T22:08:58.929+02:00Care Frater,
Thank you for your contributions. I ...Care Frater,<br /><br />Thank you for your contributions. I value your input highly. It is inspiring to see someone with a sound attitude to these kind of subjects. Please feel free to discuss other topics here on the blog.<br /><br />In Licht, Leben und Liebe<br />S:.R:.Sincerus Renatus...https://www.blogger.com/profile/16773943810683981054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4306753589954666513.post-89358363827153439332010-07-24T20:11:22.703+02:002010-07-24T20:11:22.703+02:00I do not know if the disgusting Madame Horos was a...I do not know if the disgusting Madame Horos was a member of a competing Order although it seems certain that she was influenced by opposing (qliphothic) forces to the magic of Light.<br /><br />Unfortunately it seems that Howe was all too quick to jump on that same unseemly underworld train of the totally discredited Horos woman.<br /><br />I am not sure why Howe was antagonistic towards the G.D. Was he a later member of the S.R.I.A. like Bob Gilbert? One must wonder if the S.R.I.A., through such historians, wished to distance themselves from or even undermine the G.D. and its lineage as it seems that these "official" historians of the G.D. both approach the Order with cynicism and sarcasm. <br /><br />It is definately true that Mathers et al had their foibles and were possible of human error but I think assuming they were liars is unfounded. I do not place any human being on pedastals in the clouds yet it seems altogether unfair to present the founders as charlatans. Mathers' gullibility in this matter, for example, proves he wasn't beyond human error though such gullibility is no cardinal sin.<br /><br />Perhaps, though, the S.R.I.A. with its own dubious lack of lineage wished to undermine the G.D.'s lineage. Much the same could be said for the many modern Orders who underplay the value of lineage today. It is hard to say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4306753589954666513.post-75051642170768107042010-07-24T19:49:03.595+02:002010-07-24T19:49:03.595+02:00Thank you very much for this highly valuable infor...Thank you very much for this highly valuable information. I have never read Mathers letter to Westcott before, nor have I heard about it. Again thank's!<br /><br />So, here we have yet another big piece of the jigsaw puzzle regarding the Fräulein Sprengle and Licht, Leben und Liebe Temple in Germany.<br /><br />I wonder if Ellic Howe was aware of this letter to Westcott? He start of his investigation of forgery by mentioning Mathers accusation, and if he was aware (which we probably never will know for sure), he surely was biased in his historical research. <br /><br />So, this Horos woman created much larger harm to the H.O.G.D. that we have ever imagined. Not only did she destroy its reputation to the Outer World, but she also layed the seed of its division and the schism in 1900. Mathers suspected that she belonged to a occult fraternity set to destroy the H.O.G.D. Perhaps he was right?<br /><br />In Licht, Leben und Liebe<br />S:.R:.Sincerus Renatus...https://www.blogger.com/profile/16773943810683981054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4306753589954666513.post-81777098021117066952010-07-24T17:43:21.736+02:002010-07-24T17:43:21.736+02:00Care V.H. Frater,
In terms of Mathers' accusat...Care V.H. Frater,<br />In terms of Mathers' accusations of forgery, one should note that he later redacted these accusations as they were based on the word of Madame Horos who claimed to be Fraulein Sprngel. Unfortunately, Mathers was gullible enough to believe her claim that she was the real Sprengel and that the Sprengel Westcott communicated with was a fraud.<br /><br />Here is the content of that letter dated March 28, 1910:<br /><br />Dear Dr. Westcott,<br /><br />It is with great regret that I find that Mr Crowley in his Equinox has published a portion of a PRIVATE letter from me - written on Feb 16, 1900, to one of my pupils, in which I said you must have forged letters from one S.D.A. in Germany.<br /><br />You will remember that my informant was discredited and indeed convicted of felony in 1901, and so my charge was withdrawn. I have done my best by an action at law to prevent this man from publishing his so-called revelations and I write to assure you that I make no charge of improper conduct by you, in relation to the Isis Temple of the G.D. of which you were the first member, or in respect of the R.R. et A.C. of which I am the Chief in England.<br /><br />Yours fraternally,<br /><br />S.R.M.D.<br /><br />D.D.C.F.<br /><br />MacGregorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4306753589954666513.post-24428016963097777902010-07-23T23:01:58.360+02:002010-07-23T23:01:58.360+02:00Care VH Frater,
thanks for this interesting post....Care VH Frater,<br /><br />thanks for this interesting post.<br />As always, i enjoy your entries very much.<br />I want to add that Erlangen is a part of the town Nürnberg, although it is officially registered as separate.<br />For Bavarians (like me) Erlangen was always part of the greater area of Nürnberg, and like this it was also in former times i guess.<br />Also, since iam german speaker and i have a degree in german linguistics, iam very curious to see the Sprengel letters for myself one day.<br /><br />Fraternally,<br />L.e.N.e.Rene Nagualhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05398934639980952525noreply@blogger.com